Discussion about this post

User's avatar
Eidein's avatar

Meant to leave this on your previous post but I might as well leave it here:

As a recovering rationalist, I have a particular disdain for utilitarianism. Put simply: utilitarianism is a scam used by the person who decrees what the utility function is, to silence dissent towards their leadership.

Think about it. At the end of the day, what is utilitarianism? Utilitarianism is a philosophy that says "things with more utility are better than things with less utility". Ok, sure, fine, that's cool. What is utility? Utility is good things that make people happy, for some philosophical definition of happy.

Ok, sure, fine, that's cool. Who decides what that definition is? When two people disagree, who decides which one is right? In a normal conflict of values, the decision function is "power", as you've written about at length. In a utilitarian context? Well, in my experience, it mostly looks like the same kind of social mind games that the woke pull. And if utilitarian ethics reduces to 'social status manipulation games' whenever there's a conflict, then how is that not just tyranny with extra steps?

You've actually hit on one of my favourite examples.

> Personally, to save one of my own children, I might very well condemn all of Central Asia to death by trolley. To save them both I could throw in Brazil. I must be a very ineffective altruist, I’m afraid.

Every instance of utilitarianism I've ever seen, seems to value every human life equally and interchangeably. Utilitarianism seems to always say that one life in my neighbourhood is exactly equal to one life off in some far-flung jungle. Oddly, I can't seem to get to that point from "more utility is better", and yet somehow they always do

Here's my proposition: human lives are not equal, and there is more utility in saving lives that matter more, relative to saving lives that matter less. Not only are human lives not equal, but human lives don't even have an objective, concrete, singular value. The evaluated value of a human life depends on the social distance from the evaluator. My family's lives are more valuable than other peoples' lives, _to me_. This can be true even while recognizing at the same time that their lives are _not_ more valuable to other people.

"True" Utilitarianism would be agnostic on the question of whether or not my particular metric for utility is correct. It would simply say, taking my metric as an axiom, it is good to maximize utility. And yet, for some reason, if you were to, for example, go to an EA meeting and say some variant of "we all live in America. Fuck Africa. Who gives a shit if bushmen die of malaria. One American is worth a hundred of them, and so the greatest utility is to stop wasting money over there and spend it over here"... try it and let me know how it goes.

There is no principled, objective, _utilitarian_ way to make the judgement that my utility function is "wrong" but the "maximize lives saved" function is "right". None. It doesn't exist. But utilitarians will pretend it does exist, and invoke 'utility' to silence all viewpoints to the contrary. Ergo, utilitarianism is just a scam used by whomever arbitrarily decided what utility function we're using, to silence anyone who thinks a different function would be better

Expand full comment
ScottS's avatar

"The math is definitely telling us, I feel, to own the libs." I LOLed.

Expand full comment
56 more comments...

No posts

Ready for more?