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Eidein's avatar

> In the age of Covid, salus has taken on a very literal meaning. Some countries have done a poor job of containing the SARS-Cov-2 virus. Other countries are ruled by Xi Jinping. It’s just one data point, of course…

Every time you make an offhand comment like this, I have to wonder. You're a smart guy. How do you look at what has been happening in the world, how do you look at all the statistics available, and conclude that China did the right thing?

I live in one of the _least_ locked down places in the world. Our formal lockdown lasted I think 6 weeks, in March 2020. We didn't even bother to mandate masks until July and, when we did, half the people didn't follow it. Everyone started breaking the rules en masse in October 2020, and what rules there were were formally removed in March 2021.

In spite of this:

* Our mortality rate (deaths per pop) is about half of the US average

* Our hospitals were at no point anywhere close to full

* Mortality rate _and_ fatality rate (deaths per infection) have been more than double in Canada, where my parents live, where their city "enjoyed" one of the strictest lockdowns in the (western) world

Further, every measure implemented here has had absolutely no effect whatsoever of the case rate. We know this, because city hall publishes a convenient chart with all of the dates of policy changes superimposed on the daily case rate. And every measure here had absolutely no effect whatsoever on the hospitalization rate. We know this because we have had three spikes now, under radically different circumstances, and all three of them have been the same:

* The first spike happened during the rather brief window of time when everyone was scared and actually complying with both the rules and the suggestions.

* The second spike happened when everyone was fed up with the rules and routinely breaking them

* The third spike happened after >70% of the population was vaccinated

All three spikes (as measured by daily hospitalization rate) are nearly identical. Each is about 12 weeks long (June 2020-Sept 2020, Nov 2020-Feb 2021, July 2021-Oct 2021. Each peaks around 80 new hospitalizations per day. Each takes about 2 weeks between entering the 'highest risk' category and the peak. (Note that the categories are all suggestions; an upgrade of the risk does not trigger any increase in lockdowns or covid controls, and so there is no reason to believe this is causal). Each falls as quickly as it rose after peaking.

By all available data in my city, lockdowns, distancing, event closures, mask rules, hell even vaccines, have not meaningfully changed the arc of the pandemic in either direction. This is obvious from looking at our data (sources below) and I don't understand how someone as smart as you can look at this and conclude "yeah but China still did the right thing".

We can even take it a step further and look at the actual data collected by the city. I will save you the full writeup, suffice it to say: people >60 years old comprise ~11% of all cases but ~74% of all deaths. As of this moment, across the entire timeline of the pandemic, only one person under the age of 20 has died (22,000 cases in that age group). As it is, only people who were already sick with some kind of significant comorbidity are dying.

Which is all a very long-winded way of saying, not only have all of our controls done literally zero (and this is measured, not projected, not calculated), but the severity of the situation is such that it's not a problem anyway.

So with my covid rant out of the way: I do not understand how you can look at all of this and still conclude that China did the right thing with this virus.

Sources:

Austin TX risk level dashboard (shows historical hospitalization rate) https://austin.maps.arcgis.com/apps/dashboards/0ad7fa50ba504e73be9945ec2a7841cb

Austin TX daily surveillance dashboard (shows demographic data, and the graph with the policy changes marked) https://austin.maps.arcgis.com/apps/dashboards/39e4f8d4acb0433baae6d15a931fa984

Manitoba, Canada covid dashboard (shows all relevant stats for my hometown in Canada)

https://www.arcgis.com/apps/dashboards/index.html#/29e86894292e449aa75763b077281b5b?rha=Winnipeg

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Nathaniel F's avatar

I get the impression that, like a lot of what Moldbug writes, this was written for his peers as a gateway, rather than for people who have been redpilled for over a decade (like me).

In the event that it's not, I suspect that Moldbug has a too-rosy picture of China. It seems evident even on the face that the country's development has not been "slow and steady", but rather "cancerous and phantasmal". Expansion (or improvement) occurs too often due to rank self-interest, with no regard for the health of the state (cancer) and that expansion is frequently so thinly disguised and cheap that it doesn't count for anything at all. Condemned, empty cities all being dynamited at once. This is Xi Jinping's China?

By all accounts, China is afflicted by much the same malady we are, and is not headed perpetually up to a golden throne, but arcing, perhaps not at its zenith yet, but close. We can read Xi's "talked talk" but we're not seeing a "walked walk", we're seeing gutter oil and paper mache buildings. Americans can laugh at cheap Chinese Harbor Freight junk hitting their shelves, but it seems we get the good stuff, and the Chinese get the junk. This is salus populi? Doesn't seem like it. Even moving steadily, not too fast, which is a good idea, you could at least make sure the food wasn't cooked in feces, and fire Party officials who oversaw building projects which fleeced the government.

I am at the underbelly with a magnifying glass, I know. Not all of China is like this, but much of it seems to be. And from my distant perch and telescopic lens, it looks like China is suffering the same malady that the rest of the world is.

The most common criticism of your writing that I see, Curtis, is that you "don't account for the spiritual element". I happen to think these critics are right about that, but they're also wrong. I myself am an atheist, but I see the gaping spiritual hole they describe. However, what they propose is... The Bagger 293 that dug the hole? Really? Anyway, I don't bring this up because I know the answer, but just to reinforce that I don't think China escapes this without the same kind of spiritual reform we'd need, which might not be something we'd recognize immediately as "religious". It could even be some kind of modification and canonization of Xi Jinping Thought (probably after he's dead) or something similar. But, more likely, China goes down just like we will. Even if it's the "Egypt" in our latter-day Bronze Age Collapse, it will probably be crippled. And trying to make the West more like China won't help us, either, I think.

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