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Ilya Obshadko's avatar

I didn't expect this response and I truly appreciate it.

It is, to some extent, very accurate. There's a thing with made-up nations though: as soon as people start identifying with it, it's no longer fake, it's real - the perception becomes reality almost immediately. Israel learned it the hard way, when we discovered in the late 70s that Arab population of Judea & Samaria are "Palestinians" (nobody heard of any "Palestinians" in the Middle East before this nation was invented by Soviets to legitimize Arafat). However fake it was in the beginning, it's immediately become real.

The nation-defining moment for the present-day Ukraine was 2014, when Russia invaded Crimea and started hybrid war in the east. Which is why I keep saying that - regardless whether you love or hate Putin and his agenda - it was an incredibly dumb move.

Just imagine: you're Putin. You want to keep Ukraine in the sphere of your influence. To that end, you install an absolute moron as a president, he eventually pisses off everyone, and ends up being overthrown. In response, you annex one most pro-Russian region and start the war in the other two, effectively excluding them from Ukrainian political process completely. At the same time, the rest of the country goes into full WTF mode. They see what's happened as betrayal. They don't want to have anything in common with eastern neighbors anymore. They _are_ a different nation now. And you made it real by your own actions.

Of course, cultural influence of the Ukrainian language is not even close to Russian. But it doesn't matter. Most of those people, even those who don't speak Ukrainian, don't want anything in common with the Russian national identity.

Bottomline - not everything that State Department supports is necessarily evil. It can occasionally support some good stuff, too.

P.S. Ukrainian nationalists are by no means 'libs'. They're far right hardliners (mistaking them for nazis is not accidental)

P.P.S. (3/12/22) It's been 2 months since this comment was written. It's still too early to tell what the outcome will be, but the way the "invented nation" is tearing to pieces the "2nd army in the world" is remarkable.

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Nick's avatar

Supposedly "college educated" Americans (which in these days means squat as far as erudition and knowledge of history goes) would know nothing of the above, in fact they'll know more trivia about BS pop culture topics of the day, than about history and geopolitics. They'll still feel it necessary to have an opinion on the matter, and even support (or the more delluded, demand) "action" based on the shitty State Dep. propaganda they read in the media (which would never get into any real background). Sadly the same goes for many Western Europeans these days...

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