I'm really impressed more than one woman reads this thing, I was convinced if anything is 99.9% male readership it's Gray Mirror. Thanks you based ladies. Anyways:
"There is a common thread between this and the last success—they are both completely deracinated, post-traditional people inventing wisdom for themselves. It is true that a good, old-fashioned, well-aged religion, lived in for many generations, is an excellent source of wisdom. But you can actually make wisdom yourself...."
can you, though? I've been thinking about this lately. I'm as deracinated as they come and have no particular allegiance to any tradition by birth --- but I don't think the level of wisdom baked into centuries old traditions can be matched by any one brain over the span of a single lifetime. I think major traditions have been subject to an evolution-esque process that involves its participants, but is bigger than them. A child learns to treat others well cause Jesus said so. The child does not understand the reasoning behind this rule, nor do they need to. This same phenomenon scales through adulthood all the way up to Unabomber level IQs. You can understand the tradition more than any other single individual, but still fail to understand all of it. Homebaked personal "traditions" can only be as good as (your talent) * (your time invested) < (population's talent) * (many generations).
The problem with tradition a la carte, is that the practices people leave on the buffet table were there for a reason. Humbling oneself to something one dislikes or feels is beneath his sensibilities is an integral aspect of all traditions. When you just adopt things you like, a little Buddhism here, a little Islam there, you'll inevitably fail to properly discipline yourself to the level a real tradition demands. You'll also miss out on the holistic wisdom you'd benefit from by practicing an intact tradition ---- even if you're really smart and have imbibed the complete literature.
The problem with tradition a la carte is that it's not connected to any community. As I said in my own top-level comment, the value of faithfully adhering to a tradition is community.
I don't think it's possible for people like us if we lost all ability to be communal animals. We've just become too self-aware (narcissistic?) and analytical, with an allergy to non-falsifiable claims and fantastical stories, unless they are to be understood as only metaphorical.
People can achieve very little on their own, and a community can only be held together by an unconditional belief in the same stuff, and unwarranted optimism about the shared "immortality project". In other words, people need to be lied to, and they need to believe in lies, and if we can't do it...
I started Zed to collect and forge (in the fires of twitter replies!) things I'd learned for the benefit of my sons and daughters when they read it someday. Now I'm finding a lot of people suddenly are talking about the same ideas (and if you find my twitter account, you'll be sure they didn't get it from me).
Again yarv, what about those of us who were foolish enough to study liberal arts? Not everyone can drop out and start a Midwest remote work homestead! If you haven’t noticed, most of the country is pretty rough for folx who don’t have zoom jobs!
Switch to carpentry or any other trade, if you don't want to "learn to code". For example, a garage door business is profitable and objectively useful.
If you want to use your liberal arts degree... Plenty of Zoom jobs there, too. Look for project management or content strategist jobs, for example.
Don't be so pessimistic. I know you don't like the idea because... well, because who the hell am I? I'm trying to convince my brother-in-law, and he also would rather complain instead of trying.
I am trying. But reality is reality tho. Trades require years of apprenticeships. Most zoom jobs are fake make work jobs for women and diversity. They just categorically don’t hire cishet white men especially amidst the Racial Reckoning. University is a huge scam, but it wasn’t as clear as it is now back in the 2000s and some of us took the bait...
As far as the cishet comment, don't be SO cynical. I know what you're talking about, and it's not entirely baseless, but it's not nearly as all-important as you might think. Those jobs aren't fake (OK, "content strategist" is a fake job that everyone resents; I threw it out there as a kind of dig at them, I'll be honest). Everyone needs a project manager, and a good project manager makes a huge difference. And I say this as somebody who was skeptical until I had some good experiences with them.
Project manager obviously not a totally fake position, but it depends on the company. We can argue the degree to which these feminized diversity jobs are fake make work jobs. But I think there’s something to the theory that they are an increasingly large part of the economy because women and gays are better consumers, and America increasingly derived its power from being a consumer market, especially places like New York or California. The diversity make work jobs keep the political structure intact. But I’m any case it’s very clear people like me aren’t welcome.
Have you heard of Jonathan Pageau? He is now a carver (and an Orthodox Christian youtuber/whatever). I googled how he became an Orthodox (I, correctly, guessed that he wasn't born into it), and came across a podcast where he tells the whole story of how he got into it, as well as how he got into carving. TL;DL: it wasn't overnight!
He talks about the first thing he carved and sounds like it was pretty bad. Somehow, he persists. This, while unsuccessfully looking for a job for 1.5-2 years. He has a BFA, but not in the kind of art mastery that actually gives you any useful skills.
Yes I know pageau, he’s inspirational. Thing is not everyone can be a social media phenom. I studied architecture but spent too much time in academia (PhD), basically a historian. Lost my adjunct gig due to covid.
I'm really impressed more than one woman reads this thing, I was convinced if anything is 99.9% male readership it's Gray Mirror. Thanks you based ladies. Anyways:
"There is a common thread between this and the last success—they are both completely deracinated, post-traditional people inventing wisdom for themselves. It is true that a good, old-fashioned, well-aged religion, lived in for many generations, is an excellent source of wisdom. But you can actually make wisdom yourself...."
can you, though? I've been thinking about this lately. I'm as deracinated as they come and have no particular allegiance to any tradition by birth --- but I don't think the level of wisdom baked into centuries old traditions can be matched by any one brain over the span of a single lifetime. I think major traditions have been subject to an evolution-esque process that involves its participants, but is bigger than them. A child learns to treat others well cause Jesus said so. The child does not understand the reasoning behind this rule, nor do they need to. This same phenomenon scales through adulthood all the way up to Unabomber level IQs. You can understand the tradition more than any other single individual, but still fail to understand all of it. Homebaked personal "traditions" can only be as good as (your talent) * (your time invested) < (population's talent) * (many generations).
The problem with tradition a la carte, is that the practices people leave on the buffet table were there for a reason. Humbling oneself to something one dislikes or feels is beneath his sensibilities is an integral aspect of all traditions. When you just adopt things you like, a little Buddhism here, a little Islam there, you'll inevitably fail to properly discipline yourself to the level a real tradition demands. You'll also miss out on the holistic wisdom you'd benefit from by practicing an intact tradition ---- even if you're really smart and have imbibed the complete literature.
The problem with tradition a la carte is that it's not connected to any community. As I said in my own top-level comment, the value of faithfully adhering to a tradition is community.
I don't think it's possible for people like us if we lost all ability to be communal animals. We've just become too self-aware (narcissistic?) and analytical, with an allergy to non-falsifiable claims and fantastical stories, unless they are to be understood as only metaphorical.
People can achieve very little on their own, and a community can only be held together by an unconditional belief in the same stuff, and unwarranted optimism about the shared "immortality project". In other words, people need to be lied to, and they need to believe in lies, and if we can't do it...
I started Zed to collect and forge (in the fires of twitter replies!) things I'd learned for the benefit of my sons and daughters when they read it someday. Now I'm finding a lot of people suddenly are talking about the same ideas (and if you find my twitter account, you'll be sure they didn't get it from me).
Help! I'm a prisoner in an advice column factory!
Again yarv, what about those of us who were foolish enough to study liberal arts? Not everyone can drop out and start a Midwest remote work homestead! If you haven’t noticed, most of the country is pretty rough for folx who don’t have zoom jobs!
Switch to carpentry or any other trade, if you don't want to "learn to code". For example, a garage door business is profitable and objectively useful.
If you want to use your liberal arts degree... Plenty of Zoom jobs there, too. Look for project management or content strategist jobs, for example.
Those zoom jobs are Cis white males need not apply. Tough to switch to a trade in yr 30s.
Don't be so pessimistic. I know you don't like the idea because... well, because who the hell am I? I'm trying to convince my brother-in-law, and he also would rather complain instead of trying.
To clarify: people either like ideas they themselves come up with or they like advice coming from the people who are an authority to them.
To you, I’m just some anon commenter, so I get it. To by BIL, I’m that man who is no prophet in his own land.
I am trying. But reality is reality tho. Trades require years of apprenticeships. Most zoom jobs are fake make work jobs for women and diversity. They just categorically don’t hire cishet white men especially amidst the Racial Reckoning. University is a huge scam, but it wasn’t as clear as it is now back in the 2000s and some of us took the bait...
As far as the cishet comment, don't be SO cynical. I know what you're talking about, and it's not entirely baseless, but it's not nearly as all-important as you might think. Those jobs aren't fake (OK, "content strategist" is a fake job that everyone resents; I threw it out there as a kind of dig at them, I'll be honest). Everyone needs a project manager, and a good project manager makes a huge difference. And I say this as somebody who was skeptical until I had some good experiences with them.
Project manager obviously not a totally fake position, but it depends on the company. We can argue the degree to which these feminized diversity jobs are fake make work jobs. But I think there’s something to the theory that they are an increasingly large part of the economy because women and gays are better consumers, and America increasingly derived its power from being a consumer market, especially places like New York or California. The diversity make work jobs keep the political structure intact. But I’m any case it’s very clear people like me aren’t welcome.
What's your major, if I may pry?
Have you heard of Jonathan Pageau? He is now a carver (and an Orthodox Christian youtuber/whatever). I googled how he became an Orthodox (I, correctly, guessed that he wasn't born into it), and came across a podcast where he tells the whole story of how he got into it, as well as how he got into carving. TL;DL: it wasn't overnight!
He talks about the first thing he carved and sounds like it was pretty bad. Somehow, he persists. This, while unsuccessfully looking for a job for 1.5-2 years. He has a BFA, but not in the kind of art mastery that actually gives you any useful skills.
https://www.iheart.com/podcast/256-lord-send-me-30997127/episode/a-discussion-with-jonathan-pageau-31549005/
Yes I know pageau, he’s inspirational. Thing is not everyone can be a social media phenom. I studied architecture but spent too much time in academia (PhD), basically a historian. Lost my adjunct gig due to covid.