Thinking about it, your problem seems like a 'nice problem to have' from my point of view. I'm not at the 'advice to meet _this kind_ of girl' phase yet, I still don't know how to meet any women at all.
Most of the people in this thread are talking in a way that comes across like its easy peasy to bang random thots, but finding a woman o…
Thinking about it, your problem seems like a 'nice problem to have' from my point of view. I'm not at the 'advice to meet _this kind_ of girl' phase yet, I still don't know how to meet any women at all.
Most of the people in this thread are talking in a way that comes across like its easy peasy to bang random thots, but finding a woman of quality is difficult.
It's been closing on 3 years for me and not for lack of trying. I don't know what I'm doing wrong. I have a good number of female friends (always of the "I'm only friends with guys" variety) and they routinely express surprise that someone as great as me is still single. Fit, wealthy, successful, independent, smart, funny, beloved in my communities. I lead things and make stuff happen. All of the commentary in this post and comments about spending your 20s working on yourself... I did that! And yet I've averaged 1 date per year since 2016, and I always get ghosted immediately
People tell me that there's women everywhere, you just have to talk to them. That's not my experience. Not by a long shot. I don't know where people are meeting dating-aged women but its not happening for me. What can I do to change my circumstances before it's too late?
What was it like in your 20s? (I'm assuming you're in your 30s since you're talking about your 20s in the past tense). When you say that you spent time working on yourself, what exactly do you mean?
I were a man and single, I would consider joining the Mormon church :D
IIRC, they have special singles wards for such cases. And if it works out, you fill your house with a bunch of kids.
22: First kiss, first lay, and first GF at 22. She moved in almost immediately, relationship started to sour because she was not a good partner, broke up at 24.
24 - 27: alone and living a miserable bugman life as a software eng in the bay area. This mostly consisted of either spending most of my spare time intoxicated while fucking around on the internet, or driving 2+ hours outside of the city to go hike somewhere nice.
27 - 29: second GF, who seemed a perfect match. Dated for a year and then lived together for a year. Then out of nowhere she dumped me and she is who I was referring to in my other comment about this post being a perfect descriptor of her
29 - 30: It took this long to get over second GF
30 - present day: mostly the personal growth as outlined below
> When you say that you spent time working on yourself, what exactly do you mean?
I have achieved wealth, financial stability, and career success, with a net worth that currently fluctuates between 600k and 800k depending how much Biden is fucking up the stock market any given week.
I started taking fitness seriously, stopped being fat, started lifting. I'm past a 2-plate squat, and very close to a 3-plate deadlift now.
I started taking health seriously. I prioritized getting a good night's sleep. I stopped eating lazy prepackaged things and started cooking healthier foods. I stopped procrastinating and took care of some chronic health issues that have been a drag on me for a long time.
I finally made progress on getting a green card, which was a blocker preventing me from most long-term life planning. If all goes according to plan, I should have permanent residency by the end of next year and possibly sooner.
I started building new friendships and community, filling up my calendar with a robust social life powered by people worth spending time with. I started creating meetup groups, organizing events, and bringing people together
I stopped investing time and emotional energy into people who didn't bring value to my life. I stopped trying to force myself to do things I don't like (ie parties where everyone just gets shitty drunk and act like hooligans) just because "that's what you're supposed to do". I started being deliberate about how I spend my social time instead of just doing whatever was available
I started taking pride in my appearance. I bought a bunch of well-fitting and stylish clothes and started dressing to impress more.
I did a lot of personal grappling with emotions and insecurities, became much more confident, and learned to feel good about myself. I stopped letting my insecurities cast a shadow over my social relationships and learned to accept when other people care about and value me
I reconciled things with some friends whose bridges I had previously burned. Several of whom are subscribed to Gray Mirror and will likely read this
I spruced up my apartment so it didn't look like a lazy bachelor lives in it.
> I were a man and single, I would consider joining the Mormon church :D
I've tried going back to church several times now but it seems that there is simply too much of a cultural gap between me and church people. I end up going somewhere for a while, don't really make any friends, get frustrated at how much I dislike most of what we're doing, and then give up and try a different church. I've decided that I'll go to a church now if and only if I have a friend who already attends that church who invites me, and I'm on the lookout for such opportunities
It's tricky to troubleshoot this from a comment section in a blog post, but ill take a crack at it. Of course I don't know you, so any guesses I come up with are only guesses and based on personal experience.
1. As I said before, it could be location. I have found the marrying type to be in the outer burbs (I think they call them bedroom neighborhoods?), or in rural communities. These girls are not worried about careers or binge sex because there's few careers to be had, and very few hook up spots. On the other hand, I can see many men falling victim to this community as eligible single girls are scooped up pretty quick. Your female friends who keep guys in the friend zone may be evidence of the location problem.
2. Perhaps you're either you're too aggressive or too shy on first dates. Maybe you're too earnest - maybe you treat the date as an interview? My advice is, just have fun! Take her to fun places, order for her, give her an experience. Build sexual tension but don't have sex. Think like a caveman, but behave like a gentleman - if that makes any sense! A lot of women are like 18 wheelers, it takes awhile to get them going. So mundane, "what do you do for work?" Sounds like a job interview and not a fun night out. So learn to be a fun date.
3. Again, confidence. Confidence can be tricky. If you dont have it you can't fake it, too much confidence looks arrogant and a giant red flag to a woman with any sense. If you talk about yourself too much you look like a narcissist - not enough and you look beta or not interested.
4. Broaden all social circles or create new ones. Join a country club or whatever. Even if it's predominantly male, you never know who knows someone. Plus it's something fun to do in your spare time.
5. If you haven't tried it, I actually know several happy marriages from sites like match.com.
I have had so many bad experiences with online dating, it could fill a blog. Suffice it to say: I've had such bad luck with dating apps/sites that I've now hired professional consultants to spruce my profile up three times. All three gave up on me.
I’d be careful of over taking responsibility. Sounds like you’re a good prospect who’s willing to do, and has, the work required to be so.
I just see women encouraged and enabled their entire lives, for generations now, to reject responsibility for their behavior and to always blame men. It’s a suicide course of mandatory authorization (of women as being owed authority in matters personal, economic, political) and complete lack of accountability. The counter part is men are always told they’re “dominating the space,” “entitled,” “toxic,” and need to relinquish any and all status or authority no matter how they may have earned it (#all men) and are endlessly held accountable (for women over whom they have no authority as well as themselves) like they are original sin itself.
The current environment is so hostile towards healthy relationships I don’t see what can improve it. Essentially the cathedral’s greatest faith contingent is modern women. I don’t blame women or think they’re bad. In other words the dysfunctional totalitarian regime of government, media, academia, culture also has an interpersonal wing that feeds on prospective stable relationships like a flesh eating virus.
Even top 10/10 Chad doesn’t seem to have great options for a stable, caring, cooperative, committed partner. Of course he has endless options for (ultimately degenerative it mostly seems) sex. Unlimited flesh buffet; a walk together on a path towards the transcendent is off the menu.
Women today bail (most divorces filed by women, as well receiving custody and support, alimony). Men get left holding the bag. It just doesn’t seem worth bothering anymore. A man’s life can also be ruined at anytime by false allegations. Even if they’re dropped or disproven they linger like stains in cheap hotel rooms.
Reputation assassination - the elite soldier of gender equality (who? Me?)
Sorry to be such a doomer. I want to be wrong, I just see what I see. Of course all of the above is not true in every case but it’s the norm. It’s also the norm to continue pretending 1950’s gender norms remain as a straw man to continue moving the goal posts (pussy hats? Wheee! Areeghhh! Orange men rape!)
I hope you have good luck but if having a family is really a life priority you may want to consider moving to a country with a more traditional family culture (culturally enforced monogamy) that doesn’t incentivize divorce and judges women and men both as responsible for staying the course and upholding their duties. The mission of the west it seems is to eradicate all duty for women. They’re always welcome to do anything on an optional basis, but always with a get out of jail free card. Men have to go down with the ship. These days, even someone else’s.
I view culture and mores as to blame; not women. They are agents though arguably men are more so for enabling all of this. (Not the talibro’s though! Just kidding, bit of dark humor).
Don’t worry about things being too late. Your fertility window and attractiveness is not ending. You’ll continue to grow and mature and accumulate resources (knowledge, contacts, status, earning capacity). I would remain open to prospect of meeting someone but not expect to. Think what kind of life would you want to live if you couldn’t find someone, then dedicate yourself to that, always keeping open the possibility that you might meet someone. Men are still waiting for women to act according to the traditional script as we are still expected to do. Women don’t, haven’t been, and won’t until massive societal change. The state is a more stable, low demand protector and provide (husband) than a human male. Plus boys have cooties yuck! Girls just wanna have fun. The constant option to just get off the boring old bus ride whenever the mood strikes makes marriage (meaningful commitment) very unreliable. Add limitless sexualization and constant social media access from/to millions of people and the risk of cheating is massive; moreover it’s becoming completely de stigmatized. Slut shaming accompanies stable monogamous relationships and families. Have cake or eat, not both.
I’d say just try to focus on your goals, look at your freedom to choose exactly what path you want to walk like you won the lottery. That will be necessary to counter the black pilling experience of contemplating and accepting possibility of never meeting a competent partner in a culture which (intentionally or not) aims to totally decimate trad life, beginning with family. I hope I’m wrong but all my sciencing produces consistent conclusions.
Sorry for the rant, please take this grain of salt. It’s not all doom and gloom, we just ain’t in Kansas anymore. Life is still beautiful and a gift, disappointment, suffering and all.
> A man’s life can also be ruined at anytime by false allegations
The closest I've ever come to having my life ruined was when my coworkers discovered my pivotal involvement in a controversy centered on our distinguished Gray Mirror host. They failed. Twice.
Just so I'm not misunderstood; I'm in no way trying to place the blame at the feet of these gentlemen. I'm sincerely trying to help. Doing a courting dance is not just generations old- it's forever old. I know that lifelong partnership is very hard to find these days, much thanks to women and their boomer parents. However, as a married lady myself with a family I still value those timeless institutions and I feel they're worth fighting for. When I'm critiquing their dating styles, it should go without saying the things they should value too- hopefully they know this, but as for the women: can they cook,? can they keep tidy? are they nurturing?...By the way, modern feminism hasn't been hot shakes for women either - it's screwed everyone!
Both my great grandparents- (not that long ago) - their marriages were arranged or at least in one case, answered an ad to a widower and his motherless children - they had my grandfather and his older brother... So now what do ppl do?
But for every man wanting to make that contact there's a young lady waiting by her phone. It sounds fictional, but it's not.
I do agree with continuing to better oneself until the right one comes along and to enjoy life nonetheless. When we're enjoying the thrills of life the right one magically appears, and if not, no time wasted.
Appreciate both of your responses. TBH at this point I'd take some of that hookup culture as a consolation prize, but I can't even seem to pull that off. Over time it has become hard not to internalize this as a value judgement on myself. I will never be good enough, it seems, which is just made that much worse by the fact that they all keep getting worse and worse
Have you watched this Norwegian Netflix show, Home for Christmas? It's about this woman who is pressured to find a boyfriend by her family and out of desperation lies that she has one, then actually has to find one in time for the Christmas holidays. I kind of stopped watching after the episode when she has sex with the 17-yo, but the episode where she goes to a speed-dating event is really funny.
I'll have to check, but in the end, I think she ends up with her awkward coworker.
Thinking about it, your problem seems like a 'nice problem to have' from my point of view. I'm not at the 'advice to meet _this kind_ of girl' phase yet, I still don't know how to meet any women at all.
Most of the people in this thread are talking in a way that comes across like its easy peasy to bang random thots, but finding a woman of quality is difficult.
It's been closing on 3 years for me and not for lack of trying. I don't know what I'm doing wrong. I have a good number of female friends (always of the "I'm only friends with guys" variety) and they routinely express surprise that someone as great as me is still single. Fit, wealthy, successful, independent, smart, funny, beloved in my communities. I lead things and make stuff happen. All of the commentary in this post and comments about spending your 20s working on yourself... I did that! And yet I've averaged 1 date per year since 2016, and I always get ghosted immediately
People tell me that there's women everywhere, you just have to talk to them. That's not my experience. Not by a long shot. I don't know where people are meeting dating-aged women but its not happening for me. What can I do to change my circumstances before it's too late?
What was it like in your 20s? (I'm assuming you're in your 30s since you're talking about your 20s in the past tense). When you say that you spent time working on yourself, what exactly do you mean?
I were a man and single, I would consider joining the Mormon church :D
IIRC, they have special singles wards for such cases. And if it works out, you fill your house with a bunch of kids.
> what was it like in your 20s
22: First kiss, first lay, and first GF at 22. She moved in almost immediately, relationship started to sour because she was not a good partner, broke up at 24.
24 - 27: alone and living a miserable bugman life as a software eng in the bay area. This mostly consisted of either spending most of my spare time intoxicated while fucking around on the internet, or driving 2+ hours outside of the city to go hike somewhere nice.
27 - 29: second GF, who seemed a perfect match. Dated for a year and then lived together for a year. Then out of nowhere she dumped me and she is who I was referring to in my other comment about this post being a perfect descriptor of her
29 - 30: It took this long to get over second GF
30 - present day: mostly the personal growth as outlined below
> When you say that you spent time working on yourself, what exactly do you mean?
I have achieved wealth, financial stability, and career success, with a net worth that currently fluctuates between 600k and 800k depending how much Biden is fucking up the stock market any given week.
I started taking fitness seriously, stopped being fat, started lifting. I'm past a 2-plate squat, and very close to a 3-plate deadlift now.
I started taking health seriously. I prioritized getting a good night's sleep. I stopped eating lazy prepackaged things and started cooking healthier foods. I stopped procrastinating and took care of some chronic health issues that have been a drag on me for a long time.
I finally made progress on getting a green card, which was a blocker preventing me from most long-term life planning. If all goes according to plan, I should have permanent residency by the end of next year and possibly sooner.
I started building new friendships and community, filling up my calendar with a robust social life powered by people worth spending time with. I started creating meetup groups, organizing events, and bringing people together
I stopped investing time and emotional energy into people who didn't bring value to my life. I stopped trying to force myself to do things I don't like (ie parties where everyone just gets shitty drunk and act like hooligans) just because "that's what you're supposed to do". I started being deliberate about how I spend my social time instead of just doing whatever was available
I started taking pride in my appearance. I bought a bunch of well-fitting and stylish clothes and started dressing to impress more.
I did a lot of personal grappling with emotions and insecurities, became much more confident, and learned to feel good about myself. I stopped letting my insecurities cast a shadow over my social relationships and learned to accept when other people care about and value me
I reconciled things with some friends whose bridges I had previously burned. Several of whom are subscribed to Gray Mirror and will likely read this
I spruced up my apartment so it didn't look like a lazy bachelor lives in it.
> I were a man and single, I would consider joining the Mormon church :D
I've tried going back to church several times now but it seems that there is simply too much of a cultural gap between me and church people. I end up going somewhere for a while, don't really make any friends, get frustrated at how much I dislike most of what we're doing, and then give up and try a different church. I've decided that I'll go to a church now if and only if I have a friend who already attends that church who invites me, and I'm on the lookout for such opportunities
It's tricky to troubleshoot this from a comment section in a blog post, but ill take a crack at it. Of course I don't know you, so any guesses I come up with are only guesses and based on personal experience.
1. As I said before, it could be location. I have found the marrying type to be in the outer burbs (I think they call them bedroom neighborhoods?), or in rural communities. These girls are not worried about careers or binge sex because there's few careers to be had, and very few hook up spots. On the other hand, I can see many men falling victim to this community as eligible single girls are scooped up pretty quick. Your female friends who keep guys in the friend zone may be evidence of the location problem.
2. Perhaps you're either you're too aggressive or too shy on first dates. Maybe you're too earnest - maybe you treat the date as an interview? My advice is, just have fun! Take her to fun places, order for her, give her an experience. Build sexual tension but don't have sex. Think like a caveman, but behave like a gentleman - if that makes any sense! A lot of women are like 18 wheelers, it takes awhile to get them going. So mundane, "what do you do for work?" Sounds like a job interview and not a fun night out. So learn to be a fun date.
3. Again, confidence. Confidence can be tricky. If you dont have it you can't fake it, too much confidence looks arrogant and a giant red flag to a woman with any sense. If you talk about yourself too much you look like a narcissist - not enough and you look beta or not interested.
4. Broaden all social circles or create new ones. Join a country club or whatever. Even if it's predominantly male, you never know who knows someone. Plus it's something fun to do in your spare time.
5. If you haven't tried it, I actually know several happy marriages from sites like match.com.
I hope that helps a little more.
Cheers
I have had so many bad experiences with online dating, it could fill a blog. Suffice it to say: I've had such bad luck with dating apps/sites that I've now hired professional consultants to spruce my profile up three times. All three gave up on me.
I'm sorry. 😔To me you seem very sweet. Good luck
I’d be careful of over taking responsibility. Sounds like you’re a good prospect who’s willing to do, and has, the work required to be so.
I just see women encouraged and enabled their entire lives, for generations now, to reject responsibility for their behavior and to always blame men. It’s a suicide course of mandatory authorization (of women as being owed authority in matters personal, economic, political) and complete lack of accountability. The counter part is men are always told they’re “dominating the space,” “entitled,” “toxic,” and need to relinquish any and all status or authority no matter how they may have earned it (#all men) and are endlessly held accountable (for women over whom they have no authority as well as themselves) like they are original sin itself.
The current environment is so hostile towards healthy relationships I don’t see what can improve it. Essentially the cathedral’s greatest faith contingent is modern women. I don’t blame women or think they’re bad. In other words the dysfunctional totalitarian regime of government, media, academia, culture also has an interpersonal wing that feeds on prospective stable relationships like a flesh eating virus.
Even top 10/10 Chad doesn’t seem to have great options for a stable, caring, cooperative, committed partner. Of course he has endless options for (ultimately degenerative it mostly seems) sex. Unlimited flesh buffet; a walk together on a path towards the transcendent is off the menu.
Women today bail (most divorces filed by women, as well receiving custody and support, alimony). Men get left holding the bag. It just doesn’t seem worth bothering anymore. A man’s life can also be ruined at anytime by false allegations. Even if they’re dropped or disproven they linger like stains in cheap hotel rooms.
Reputation assassination - the elite soldier of gender equality (who? Me?)
Sorry to be such a doomer. I want to be wrong, I just see what I see. Of course all of the above is not true in every case but it’s the norm. It’s also the norm to continue pretending 1950’s gender norms remain as a straw man to continue moving the goal posts (pussy hats? Wheee! Areeghhh! Orange men rape!)
I hope you have good luck but if having a family is really a life priority you may want to consider moving to a country with a more traditional family culture (culturally enforced monogamy) that doesn’t incentivize divorce and judges women and men both as responsible for staying the course and upholding their duties. The mission of the west it seems is to eradicate all duty for women. They’re always welcome to do anything on an optional basis, but always with a get out of jail free card. Men have to go down with the ship. These days, even someone else’s.
I view culture and mores as to blame; not women. They are agents though arguably men are more so for enabling all of this. (Not the talibro’s though! Just kidding, bit of dark humor).
Don’t worry about things being too late. Your fertility window and attractiveness is not ending. You’ll continue to grow and mature and accumulate resources (knowledge, contacts, status, earning capacity). I would remain open to prospect of meeting someone but not expect to. Think what kind of life would you want to live if you couldn’t find someone, then dedicate yourself to that, always keeping open the possibility that you might meet someone. Men are still waiting for women to act according to the traditional script as we are still expected to do. Women don’t, haven’t been, and won’t until massive societal change. The state is a more stable, low demand protector and provide (husband) than a human male. Plus boys have cooties yuck! Girls just wanna have fun. The constant option to just get off the boring old bus ride whenever the mood strikes makes marriage (meaningful commitment) very unreliable. Add limitless sexualization and constant social media access from/to millions of people and the risk of cheating is massive; moreover it’s becoming completely de stigmatized. Slut shaming accompanies stable monogamous relationships and families. Have cake or eat, not both.
I’d say just try to focus on your goals, look at your freedom to choose exactly what path you want to walk like you won the lottery. That will be necessary to counter the black pilling experience of contemplating and accepting possibility of never meeting a competent partner in a culture which (intentionally or not) aims to totally decimate trad life, beginning with family. I hope I’m wrong but all my sciencing produces consistent conclusions.
Sorry for the rant, please take this grain of salt. It’s not all doom and gloom, we just ain’t in Kansas anymore. Life is still beautiful and a gift, disappointment, suffering and all.
This is a tangent but it's funny
> A man’s life can also be ruined at anytime by false allegations
The closest I've ever come to having my life ruined was when my coworkers discovered my pivotal involvement in a controversy centered on our distinguished Gray Mirror host. They failed. Twice.
Just so I'm not misunderstood; I'm in no way trying to place the blame at the feet of these gentlemen. I'm sincerely trying to help. Doing a courting dance is not just generations old- it's forever old. I know that lifelong partnership is very hard to find these days, much thanks to women and their boomer parents. However, as a married lady myself with a family I still value those timeless institutions and I feel they're worth fighting for. When I'm critiquing their dating styles, it should go without saying the things they should value too- hopefully they know this, but as for the women: can they cook,? can they keep tidy? are they nurturing?...By the way, modern feminism hasn't been hot shakes for women either - it's screwed everyone!
Both my great grandparents- (not that long ago) - their marriages were arranged or at least in one case, answered an ad to a widower and his motherless children - they had my grandfather and his older brother... So now what do ppl do?
But for every man wanting to make that contact there's a young lady waiting by her phone. It sounds fictional, but it's not.
I do agree with continuing to better oneself until the right one comes along and to enjoy life nonetheless. When we're enjoying the thrills of life the right one magically appears, and if not, no time wasted.
Sincerely,
T
Appreciate both of your responses. TBH at this point I'd take some of that hookup culture as a consolation prize, but I can't even seem to pull that off. Over time it has become hard not to internalize this as a value judgement on myself. I will never be good enough, it seems, which is just made that much worse by the fact that they all keep getting worse and worse
Have you watched this Norwegian Netflix show, Home for Christmas? It's about this woman who is pressured to find a boyfriend by her family and out of desperation lies that she has one, then actually has to find one in time for the Christmas holidays. I kind of stopped watching after the episode when she has sex with the 17-yo, but the episode where she goes to a speed-dating event is really funny.
I'll have to check, but in the end, I think she ends up with her awkward coworker.
I cancelled my netflix years ago in protest of their pushing so much poz onto everything.